As part of the Morning Show's coverage of the 2022 Local Elections, Aaron will be interviewing candidates standing for positions on the Raglan Community Board as well as the Waikato District and Regional Councils. Below is a transcript of Aaron's interview with Chris Rayner.
"The Raglan Community Board has stood out as a model example of an effective, functioning, community board that can work with council ... and we've actually kind of moved on from some of the confrontational ways that were impeding any progress in previous years," he said.
(Listen to the full interview below:)
Aaron: You're running for election again after one term on the community board. Keen to come back?
Chris Rayner: Yeah, we've definitely got unfinished business and the things we've started that we want to kind of see through.
Aaron: Now, I actually wanted to pick up on something Bruce was saying just before the interview. He's come to Raglan and he loves Raglan and it's a special place and a good community. The question I was going to ask is; do you have a vision for the future or how do we retain what we've got? It's a tough question to answer and there's probably a lot of hand-waving that goes with it. But do you have feelings about how we retain what we've got?
Chris Rayner: Well, it really comes down to diversity. We want to make sure that we keep a large, diverse community of different ethnic races, genders and socio economic statuses. As soon as a community starts to become monoptic or singular, and too much of one kind, then you really lose that character. So I think that making sure we provide a community and a base for as wide a range of diverse people as possible.
Aaron: And that brings us to housing. Cost of housing.
Chris Rayner: Absolutely. It's going through the roof and people that have lived here a long time are being forced to look for housing elsewhere, which is a massive shame. We've actually got to work out what we can do together as a community to stem that tide and provide housing for people from all walks of life and socio economic backgrounds.
Aaron: It's a pretty challenging thing to lay at the door of the community board, which I guess I'm doing right now by asking you these questions. But what can the community board do about it?
Chris Rayner: There's lots of programs that have already started over the last few years. I'm sure you'd be well aware of WRAP.
Aaron: The Whāingaroa Raglan Affordable Housing Project.
Chris Rayner: Yeah so that just got started up by the community, for the community. There's the shared electricity group trying to help people get onto solar through bigger buying powers. There's so many great organisations that have been started up by the community, for the community. I think people don't maybe see that the community board (we have to obviously deal with the Waikato District Council,) that we also try to support all of those stand up groups in their interactions with larger groups.
We assign community board members to be a contact liaison person for the 20 or 30 different community groups. Just trying to offer them the support to continue the amazing work that they do and then obviously Raglan Naturally has kind of evolved now into a larger kind of organisation to also work in that space. So it's kind of a complicated web of groups, but there's definitely a role that the community board plays in helping facilitate and be there to support.
Aaron: Were you surprised when you went on the board that while you get a ‘position of power’, the community board literally doesn't have any powers. It's an advisory board and you couldn't come in and just make things happen. How did you adjust to the whole bureaucratic environment?
Chris Rayner: I mean, sometimes you do feel like you're smashing your head against a brick wall. I won't lie, but in other times you do see the effects of change from influence. It depends how you define power. Yes, there are no statutory rights or any real concrete power. But I would call it soft power rather than what you might define as a hard kind of power like, “We do this or do that or I have the power to do that.” But there's been a lot of things where the community board has actually managed to change the working relationship with some parts of the council.
Look, the council's got issues. We all know that it's not the most effective organisation, but that's across the country with all district councils. The Raglan Community Board has stood out as a model example of an effective, functioning, community board that can work with council, when they choose to work with us, and we've actually kind of moved on from some of the confrontational ways that were impeding any progress in previous years - and to actually kind of push forward where we can lead or advise on projects.
I mean, you just have to look at the wharf project and the way the community board has been kind of hand in hand from the outset, applying for the funding, getting the money from the provincial growth fund, and then overseeing really real developments and leadership in that project. There's a number of other ones, Places For People and the COVID response groups. My personal involvement with the wastewater, I mean it's a slow progress but the development of the wastewater plan together with Watercare, we're actually really involved.
Aaron: Let's go into that one a little bit. Where's that right now, the wastewater thing and what is it looking likely to be?
Chris Rayner: Well, yeah, obviously we're still operating under the existing framework.
Aaron: Well, there's the whole three waters thing.
Chris Rayner: The Three Waters thing, so that's a whole another case.
Aaron: Over the horizon.
Chris Rayner: Yeah but right now we're operating under the existing framework. Watercare is the organisation that is basically leading or preparing the consent but they are delving into a very in-depth, thorough and genuine process to develop alternative disposal solutions and obviously looking at land-based [solutions] while at the same time pursuing the highest grade of treatment. When you break wastewater down, there's two major parts; there's the treatment of it and then the disposal of it. They go hand in hand, but you also have to realise that those are the two major factors and they do affect each other.
Aaron: So I know council, with you guys, have been looking for land - if it's going to be land based treatment - and it has to go somewhere. Is there land available for that?
Chris Rayner: Yeah, there definitely is. There's been a range of soil tests done. The last update from Stephen at Watercare got into some really technical details of the soils in areas from Wainui Reserve, all the way up the hill and out towards Te Mata. There's a range of options, but with any big change there has to be a very thorough investigation into the known effects of your activity and also the things that you don't know - and trying to work all of them out. The reason it's taken a lot longer than people might like to table the consent is that the process is actually probably, in my opinion, being done for the first time properly and genuinely.
Aaron: Personally, I'm actually comfortable with them taking their time and want them to take their time and do it right. I think because I have seen times when council tries to rush things and it's not helpful. I kind of got used to the idea that it's going to be slow with council.
Chris Rayner: Glacial
Aaron: Yeah, well, you should try working with Waka Kotahi. They seem to be much more.... Yeah, we won't go there - they're a bit of a struggle. So as a community board member, what are you doing in that process? Because obviously you're not the technical person and you're not staff. So what does the community board member do through that process?
Chris Rayner: We're kind of a bridge, if you like, to unpack what's coming out of Watercare and the technical direction and receiving the concerns of the community, taking them to Watercare and then also getting them to basically unpack all the gobbledegook and make it into an understandable, real world application that any person on the street can get their head around.
Aaron: I think ultimately we can say that there's going to be something different at the end of this.
Chris Rayner: Yes and there will be a lodgement of a consent within a specific timeframe. I think that they're aiming for this year or very early next year. That was one of the things where I have put a little bit of pressure on Watercare and said, "Okay guys, this is cool that we're doing it properly, but there is a little bit of grumblings out there with that. We need to actually see what this consent lodgement is going to look like. So let's actually let's actually make a hard push."
There has obviously been bumps in the road with COVID and then developing technology and treatment, as different treatment technology has become more affordable or different or progressed - then bringing in that new tech changes things in terms of the soil uptake of nutrients and all the technical stuff. That's one of the reasons I'm staying and I'm putting myself up for re-election is that yeah, I have started a process with this wastewater treatment consent. I want to see it through.
Aaron: I always ask people about work life experiences that have been useful to be on the board so people know what you used to do or what you still do. It's not like you get paid for it. It's not a full time job, (it might be full time activity, but you don't get paid full time). So yeah, what is your work life like and how does that contribute to what you do on the board?
Chris Rayner: Well, I've done a lot of different things from organising and running entertainment venues and art galleries and whatnot in Europe and events. Now I'm basically full time project managing a build, while also I've got my little digger business on the side so a digger and a truck to go out and do a few jobs on sunny days. I actually was just about to load up the digger and head out the door when you called.
Aaron: Well it is a sunny day. And so what do those experiences give you when you come on the board?
Chris Rayner: I think it's just having real world experiences and being able to understand what's going on out in the wider community and just bringing a level of general common sense. Because honestly, sometimes bureaucrats do come up with a plan that might seem good on paper. You know, take the changing of the Cambrae Road walkway; you look on a flat Google map and yes that makes great sense. You go down and walk the track [however] and it's obvious that going right up that hill and down that hill doesn't make any sense. So it's bringing that common sense.
Aaron: That local knowledge.
Chris Rayner: Yeah and calling them out when you do notice things and trying to do that in a constructive way and we're like, "Hold on guys, you need to see it from this perspective as well."
Aaron: Was it you that went out and tried to walk?
Chris Rayner: Oh, a few of us have actually.
Aaron: I've been round there, I've never tried to walk where they say it is.
Chris Rayner: Yeah, it's pretty slippery.
Aaron: I thought it would be pretty challenging.
Chris Rayner: And it was a really good presentation yesterday from the Cambrae Road residents.
Aaron: That's a very constructive group of people.
Chris Rayner: Yeah.
Aaron: They've gone out and got quotes and everything.Hey, so what about canvassing and being in touch with the community? Are you still doing gigs at Yot Club as a DJ? And you're involved in the entertainment kind of scene. So you're in touch with younger people who don't vote that often, especially in local body elections. Are you encouraging people to vote?
Chris Rayner: Absolutely. It's always a challenge to try and get some of the fellas and girls that are involved more in that kind of music and nightlife scene to actually get out and vote. I bring a different perspective to young people who, you know, previously haven't really had a voice at this local body level. So a lot of people are kind of surprised I'm still working as a DJ and promoting nights and I've actually got booked for Rhythm & Alps, so pretty stoked with that.
Aaron: One thing I've got to talk about and I guess you would say you were outed on the community board. You had a DIC charge recently was that the right phrase? DIC? I just want to give you the opportunity to say something about that. Any learnings or anything you want to say to the community?
Chris Rayner: Yeah, I mean I made a big mistake driving home on a wet, windy night back from Hamilton after the first night after lockdown and seeing my brother. I lost control of my vehicle and ended up in a paddock and the corner of Waitetuna Road and State Highway 23. I made some stupid decisions after the fact as well, drinking some beer in the car, not realising that obviously that puts me well over the limit. But actually the main thing that came out of that whole experience was the support and encouragement from the community, especially when there was a bit of vitriol on the old noticeboard. The amount of people that actually turned around and came out to me and said, “Hey look, you know, you've been straight up about what happened and you've admitted I was in the wrong,” and I've taken my responsibility seriously. And there were a couple of people that might have had it out for me in a way and tried to kind of bring me down or embarrass me or whatever. But I think I've just been amazed by the support of the wider community here in Raglan that have kind of seen it for what it is.
Aaron: Yeah, the noticeboard is a good place to go if you want vitriol. We do know that. All right, so I just thought we just needed to briefly touch on that and acknowledge it. The things I like to talk about are the questions about Raglan. We all like to think we're in a unique place. How do you describe Raglan? What is unique about it? Can you put it into words? Because there's usually a lot of hand-waving and oh, it's lovely, or it's this or it's that. But it's quite useful for someone in your position to be able to really get specific about it. Let's see what it is we want to protect.
Chris Rayner: Well, it's an amazing intersection of culture that you don't necessarily find in other places. We've got the beauty of a small town community while having the youthful exuberance of all the people that are into all of the different sports around. You know people compare places like Raglan to Waiheke. Well you can't because Waiheke is so sleepy and it's all just become a monoculture of quite wealthy people.
Aaron: Right.
Chris Rayner: Whereas Raglan, with all of the surfing and kite surfing and mountain biking and all the other activities, keeps a young vibrancy about the town while still providing a beautiful quaintness and smallness. You have the whole creative side and the arts and the music as well and if you are working in an industry where you do say you need to go to Auckland once a week or once a month - you can. So we're connected to the larger metropolises while being disconnected. We've got this brilliant spot in the world.
Aaron: They're close enough to be useful, but not too close.
Chris Rayner: Exactly.
Aaron: So we've seen council projections that in 50 years time they are projecting the population of our urban area will be 12,000 people. That's one suggestion that the experts have given. You want to retain those things you've just talked about, but how do you create a vision for the town with all that growth due and the housing crisis and all that sort of thing? Can you take us there?
Chris Rayner: I don't think any one person or group of people or organisational body or whatever has a magic bullet answer. I think the main thing is that we have to listen to and support those stand-up community groups that have seen a need and got together, got organised and filled that or seen something happening. I think it's those small, unique community groups that continue to serve the wider community in different ways that are kind of the key to keeping our diversity and our uniqueness. You know, growth is growth is growth and some places have grown terribly and some places have grown beautifully without any kind of overarching governmental control and policies.
I think it's more about the vibrancy of the community so that when new people do move here from other places, which is going to happen, that they don't just kind of go insular and into their shell like, "Oh, I'm not a local, so I can't be part of that." It is the opposite. We need to actually be like, okay, welcome to town, there's this group, there's that group. Have you thought about involving and connecting people? Not being like, "I'm more local than you," you know.
Aaron: Do you think the existence of Rangatahi might change that just because of the physical side where it's a whole new community in one place, whereas the last 20 years, most of the growth has been infill and the subdivisions that have happened have been little ones, whereas that's like a whole new suburb.
Chris Rayner: It's definitely going to have an impact and time will tell exactly how that unfolds. That was a process through a private plan change. And I think what we really need to focus on is providing in the next kind of wave of development is actually places for affordable housing, places for housing that might be kind of like a shared living model with more people, sharing a kind of common space or just different ways of of doing it, not just the cookie cutter, smaller and smaller sections. But actually looking at how we create more communal living situations or some kind of liveable, enjoyable, medium density housing - obviously not boxy apartments. But there are ways to do affordable housing. You just have to look around the world and especially in Europe and different places and some of the amazing community-led projects when it comes to housing. I think there are definite spaces for infill where we could actually provide better community housing. And I mean just look at the marae-led development.
Aaron: The papakainga.
Chris Rayner: Yeah and the development that's going on there as a real example on how to do community housing.
Aaron: I interviewed Aksel Beck yesterday, deputy mayor who's a mayoral candidate. He seemed to be in favour of giving a little more power to the community board. I presume that you'd be supportive of that as a community board person yourself?
Chris Rayner: Yeah, absolutely. I've worked with Aksel closely over the last three years and I think he's one of the most levelheaded, pragmatic and nice people in the organisation. He's definitely in it for the wider community and is not trying to hoard power in the council.We all know that there's a government led local government review coming up and the devolution of some powers to smaller groups is probably one of the outcomes of that. So I think the council might be just getting ahead of the curve as well.
Aaron: What do you think the community board could do? Bearing in mind at the moment, the only actual power it has is over the discretionary fund, which is about $14,000 a year to give out to community groups.
Chris Rayner: Even the applications to that fund used to have to go all through council and now the community board has taken over the application process for that fund and we just need more interesting and great community groups to apply to it. We've actually got a little bit of a surplus after COVID.
Aaron: Normally it gets used up every year, but the last couple of years that has built up a surplus.
Chris Rayner: You just have to look at projects like the wharf, Places for People, what we're doing in the wastewater space to see what the community board can do when it is empowered.
Aaron: But what about things like decisions? What things would you like the community board to be able to decide about rather than having to say, well, we recommend this and then having to build a relationship and all that sort of thing.
Chris Rayner: It would come down to the delegations appointed by the mayor. You know, one clear space that we have been kind of putting our hand up in is the coastal reserves management. Because the Coastal Reserves Committee was dismembered or just destroyed by the outgoing mayor.
Aaron: [laughs] I think the mayor said disbanded.
Chris Rayner: And that's left a big hole in our community where basically the council seems to have just kind of assumed all responsibility. We are trying to negotiate and navigate that space and see how the community board can effectively work with all the stakeholders in those coastal reserves to improve the management of them.
Aaron: There's a meeting coming up in a few days or a week or so.
Chris Rayner: Tuesday the 13th I believe, in the surf club for the stakeholders. So if anyone feels particularly interested in coastal reserves management, that's Manu Bay, Wainui Reserve and Papahua.
Aaron: Yeah. I think there'll be a lot of people there
Chris Rayner: Actually I'll tell you a funny story. I turned up at that meeting a month early.
Aaron: Oh, you're so keen to go.
Chris Rayner: I messaged the other board members, "Is that meeting tonight at the surf club?" And she's awfully quiet and rainy.
Aaron: You'll know when it's on, because I'm sure there'll be a lot of people there.
Hey, folks, we've been talking to Chris Rayner, who's currently a community board member looking to stand again for the next three years. And I guess we'll do the bit where I ask you all to tell us why people should vote for you. What do you bring to the community board?
Chris Rayner: I think I bring a vibrancy and a little bit of youth - although I'm getting on now - I can make a connection to parts of the wider community that don't necessarily or traditionally have representation. I also really strongly advocated the extending of the community board area to include Te Mata and Te Uku in their entirety, which during the review the council for some reason didn't want to. We made a really strong series of submissions to include those communities of interest. So even though I'm on the edge of the main town, I also like to think that I've helped to bring some representation to Te Uku and Te Mata and Okete and Ruapuke because we believe that they are communities of interest and part of Raglan.
Aaron: I just interviewed Ross Wallis the other day who's standing for the board and he could never understand why they weren't part of it.
Chris Rayner: So yeah, it was logical but we had to push back really hard and it wasn't until the government appointed commission agreed with us, and again, it was one of those things where council could have actually listened earlier.
Aaron: They're so conservative, they're like, "Well, we'll just do a bit." So they kind of half did it.
Chris Rayner: And then I said that was terrible because actually it was even worse. You're going to give half of Te Uku a bit and then the other people on the other side of the road are going to be like, where am I?
Aaron: Yeah the boundary was literally going to go through the middle.
Chris Rayner: It was so illogical. So yeah, we pushed back on that as a board and it was one of our little wins.
Aaron: And you went and spoke to that?
Chris Rayner: Yeah so I personally helped write the submissions.
Aaron: Alright Chris, it's been really cool talking to you this morning. Good luck with the campaign and be interesting to see the makeup of the board. There's five of you guys wanting to come back, aren't there?
Chris Rayner: I think there's nine people standing for six places. Plus the ward councillor.
Aaron: I know it's less fun for you guys, but for those of us out here, it's good to have a proper election.
Chris Rayner: I think it's great, honestly. I've encouraged a few people to stand and really, really stoked to actually have a real election this time around.
Aaron: Alright, thanks for your time.